I agree especially with #2 and wonder whether this is a wider problem for evangelical strains of the faith. Most problematic, however, if we are centered around the confession of the resurrection of Christ, then the demonization of flesh attacks the very core of our faith. If flesh is bad, then why was the resurrection necessary? If Christ's resurrection is a foretaste of our own, will we not also raise enfleshed?

oh man, don't even get me started on how much that neat little false dichotomy of spirit vs. flesh throws a total monkey wrench into your sexuality if you let it. it's not enough that you can't have sex before you're married -- you can't even *want* it, because those are lustful thoughts, and isn't lusting just as sinful as adultery? of course it is! so you're supposed to flee from all those sinful desires, until you get married and those desires magically become good and pure and life-affirming overnight (so to speak). nope, i definitely can't see how that would cause any intimacy problems for good upright baptists.

wow, you really know how to bring out my sarcastic side.

or maybe it's baptists that do that.

great post adam. everytime i start to forget about the xanga thing someone pops up with another good "thinking" post. i wonder whether the pastor's sermon's have always been that way, or if it's merely a learned thing. perhaps he was young & ideal like us once too & just got beat down by his job so that now it's all bland. or perhaps he's just the fruit of so many other mediocre pastors that he learned from.

I know every job I've ever had has become tedious after awhile and my performance tends to fall into the path of least resistance unless I'm careful to pay attention to it. Would pastoring be any different? i'd be interested to hear what other pastor's think about both your points. and more importantly, what do we need to do as a society to fix the problem and encourage our pastors? can it come through more training? more education? what keeps us young folk eager and idealistic? is it just hope?

Provocative topics, hooray! RE: Point No. 1: You're right! the church we currently attend focuses on stories and teaches to themes like love your neighbor, accept other people, etc. You can't go through a service without hearing the word love. My literacy professor keeps telling us that people learn through stories and visual images, ie. parables, and not long lists of unrelated items, ie. the ones your pastor presented. The best part about my church: there is NO little handout with alliterative points for me to write down! In fact, there's no alliteration at all! (I can't tell you how happy this makes me coming from an SBC where every sermon was either a) filled with alliterative points to help us remember or b) focused solely on 2 Timothy 1:5.) My present church also recycles their bulletins!

RE: Point No. 2: I tend to think that moderation is the key. That's probably not biblical, so set me straight if it's not. I see a lot of gluttony in our country. I think it's a mix a result of the mix of our people's selfishness, their isolation, and the current abundance of foodstuffs. I try to have a moderate approach to food and not eat exactly what I want, or try to be happy if things are not exactly the way that I want them all the time. I am extraordinarily selfish so this is a toughy. Still, I don't want to spend my entire earthly life in a box trying to rid myself of sin. How can I appreciate a sunset or love my neighbor from a box? In most cases I try not to get hung up on the sin in my life and try to focus more on living the life God would have me live instead of trying to get into heaven.

Wow...I'm so glad my baptist experience is totally different.  I've been in around half a dozen SBC churches and have never had a preacher state how flesh is evil.  Usually it's Paul saying that it would be great to be in eternal glory with Christ, but that it's also good to be here where we can serve and love.  And I would have to say that most temptations, although they have a physical manisfestation, are actually spiritual in nature.  Isn't that really the danger of sin?  It's not that things like addictions and divorces and nasty diseases come from sin, as some probably do preach, but that sin causes a separation from God.  And as to this preacher you heard...I think a lot of preachers confuse teaching with preaching.  Teaching is the dispensing of knowledge.  Preaching is presenting information and then leading to a personal reaction to it.  Teaching is dying in its most traditional sense.  Lynn Stoddard, the author of Redesigning Education and a former national teacher of the year, said, "We must shift from teh traditional role of knowledge dispenser to that of model, mentor, and organizor of experiences that help people to grow."  I keep that quote up on my wall right next to my desk.  I read it several times a week to remind myself that knowledge without application is pointless.  And that not all surfaces are suitable for dry-erase markers.  And I think that's why I probably will not be accepted as a pastor until our culture shifts even more and the church gets desperate enough to change or die.  Pastors in other cultures come to America expecting to hear these great sermons and instead get teaching from the culture.  Not preaching.  Carpe Deo.

RYC: Yes! I'll be teaching English II and III here. We start in three weeks and I'm getting really excited about it. A lot of my classmates are brilliant, so I can steal their amazing ideas. One guy is planning on having a short story film festival. I suggested that he go all out and have an awards ceremony and everything with the parents pretending to be the papparazzi and a red carpet. Who knows if that is feasible, but it's fun to dream.

It's not so much that I've never heard of it...just not in sermons.  There is the struggle between pleasing self and pleasing others.  That is a fleshly struggle, but again, it's not so much about the flesh as it is about the sin.  When you mention sex it is a frustrating topic.  But, again, is sex about solely finding pleasure for yourself?  Or is it an intimate experience that brings two people closer together?  But, to back up your argument, doesn't Romans 10:9-10 says that to commit to Christ takes the flesh and spirit coming to an agreement.  How contradictory is that to what these people are saying.  Sometimes I want to sin for the sprit side...just to be disobedient.  It's early and that probably didn't make any sense. 

RYC: Yeah, it sucks. We are both devastated, but oh well. I keep trying to tell myself that it's only a thing. Everything else in our lives is just the same as it was before...